An Ambitious Goal: My Quest To $1,000,000

[junkfilter6]

Hey, thanks so much for reading this post! You're in for a long ride, so buckle up and make sure your emotions are turned on.

I've wanted to start a personal journal for quite a while now, but I've been so busy with other things that I kept putting it off. Finally, the time has come. The time to share my deepest and most secret feelings, goals, desires, and ambitions with you, a member of my second family.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post100369.html

Let's start off with some background information...

I'm 18 years old and I only recently got involved in Internet Marketing (IM). Ever since the first day, I fell in love with it. I thought men were supposed to fall in love with women (or other men, depending on your views and where you live), but nope. IM and I were meant to be together.

Russell Brunson's free video opened up my eyes to a completely new world...A world full of rich dreams and glorious opportunities...A world that you'd never believe was real until you've stepped into it yourself...A world saturated with people of all walks of life......

Internet Marketing.

I suddenly felt that I've been guided by some divine spirit to a universe of unlimited potential and unmatched possibilities... My goals suddenly became realistic and everything was within grasp...

Ever since I was a little boy, I've been wanting to help people. My dad and I have this dream of building orphanages in India and Africa for all those poor children without anyone to guide them... To ascertain that goal would be nearly impossible, unless I was able to conjure up a lot of money...

I've tried my best to turn altruistic goals into plausible ACTIONS whenever I had the chance. I've done over 1,000 hours of tutoring and many, many, many hours of volunteering (like reading for the blind, helping out at the red cross, teaching little kids how to read and do math, and so much more). In high school, I was the president of the National Honor Society - a selective group of students dedicated to serving the community. In college (or university, as several of you here call it), I continued along the same path, becoming President of my pledge class for Alpha Phi Omega, a fully community service oriented fraternity (we don't even have a frat house on campus).

Each step of the way, I've done whatever I could, with the idea that every little thing I do has some kind of impact. But I looked back on it all one day and realized that I really haven't been reaching my full potential... I could devote all the time in world, but I need money to make a true contribution. Not just a little bit of money, but a LOT of money...

Whenever I had vacations or breaks from college, I worked full time. I'd work 55 hour weeks so that I could save up some cash to eventually donate. Even with a very generous scholarship from my college (I had a 4.01/4.00 GPA in high school), I still have to pay around $20,000 a year...and that's not exactly pocket change...(yet!)

I'm as hardworking as they come. My devotion to the community and my burning desire to help drives me every single day. In the past two months, I've read 100s of ebooks and watched days' worth of videos about Internet Marketing because I truly believe it can change my life, and in turn, change the world.

Being so fortunate, I stumbled upon MMD and that has made all the difference. Not only did I have access to a HUGE knowledge base, but I was invited into a community of the most loving, caring, sharing people I have ever known. Without MMD, I would've just been another IM newbie struggling to get started online with nowhere to turn to...

Whether you realize it or not, you are a crucial member of THE BEST family in the world. I sincerely want to thank you for everything. I know that things will only get better and we'll become even closer as a family.


If you've made it this far into my post, I congratulate you and furthermore, I thank you for your time. You've probably forgotten that you looked at this thread because you saw the $1,000,000 in the title...

Well, that wasn't just a ploy to get you to read this post. After reading everything I've said above, you should know that I would never do something like that. My true goal lies within the title itself.

After I learned about the potential of IM, I created some new goals in order to help achieve my underlying goals.

The truth is, my parents work too hard. I want to give them a break. I want them to be able to retire early and actually enjoy life...instead of worrying about how to pay for college for both me and my little brother... I want them to be happy.

In addition, I want to be able to build those orphanages my dad has so long dreamed of, but wasn't able to achieve... I will show him that we CAN do it.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=100369

How can I possibly do all of that...? Well, simply put, I need to become a millionaire by the time I'm 25. That's my ambitious goal. You may think I'm crazy , but know that anything is possible if you put your mind to it. I'm ready.

With you backing me up along the way, I know that I can succeed. You are to me, what water is to plants. Life.

Thank you again for reading this long-winded post (which took me about an hour to write).

I love MMD!

[happyman1001]

Awesome, man! Can't wait to hear more & see where this goes. All the best!

[anywayIcan]

Sir Junk -I believe you have the ambition and drive and have what it takes to make it in this field. I believe also that if you can succeed in Im you can succeed in anything. Just the sheer volume of useless crap info one has to wade through in order to get to what works and what does not is simply mind blowing and the reason most people give up within 12 months of trying to succeed.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post100403.html

I too look forward to your upkeep in this journal and sincerely hope it will not be another case of crash, burn and desert.

Regards and if I am able to assist please aim or skype me or hook up in chat

AC

[csnreyes]

Good luck, you will need it. I know you can do it though!

[nickmat91]

Most importantly take action and never quit!
Even if you dont reach your goal within 12 months, stick at it

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by happyman1001

Awesome, man! Can't wait to hear more & see where this goes. All the best!

Thanks for your support!

Originally Posted by anywayIcan

Sir Junk -I believe you have the ambition and drive and have what it takes to make it in this field.

I too look forward to your upkeep in this journal and sincerely hope it will not be another case of crash, burn and desert.

Regards and if I am able to assist please aim or skype me or hook up in chat

AC

Thanks so much AWIC! You've been a SIGNIFICANT help for these past few weeks, and I really can't thank you enough! I will send you a PM for a friend request on AIM and Skype.

Originally Posted by csnreyes

Good luck, you will need it. I know you can do it though!

Thanks bro! We have a lot in common and I know that together, along with the super supportive MMD family, we WILL succeed!

Originally Posted by nickmat91

Most importantly take action and never quit!
Even if you dont reach your goal within 12 months, stick at it

I've never been a quitter and I'm not about to start now! My plan is a seven year plan (25-18=7 haha), so although ambitious, I think it is possible. Thanks for your advice!

[Dr.P]

Man this is a great Journal and a wonderful testimonial to hopefully the success of a Millionaire in the very near years to come. Your dead on when you said if you set your mind to something then you can accomplish anything.

Remember this along the way.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post100447.html

Dream Big!

When your looking at materialistic items look at the larger things in life. Become it.

Set your self up with goals and reward yourself for all the hard work you have put into making this journal successful.

Always reward yourself along the way with small rewards and big rewards. Meeting and setting goals are worth a reward.

Stay true to who you are the whole way!


Doc

[IQ2K5]

We share the same goals, man...

Nice to see someone else wishing to become rich in order to
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post100539.html
change things and be of a better service to the world.

You've done enough reading now, you've got your goals charted,
now it's time to adjust the sails in the direction of the wind, and
take mass action... success is in the horizon.

If you need any help, feel free to message me, too, I'm glad to be
of some help to people with similar goals.

[junkfilter6]

Doc, thanks for the advice! I've always dreamt big and will continue to do so! Nothing can stop me!

Originally Posted by IQ2K5

We share the same goals, man...

Nice to see someone else wishing to become rich in order to
change things and be of a better service to the world.

You've done enough reading now, you've got your goals charted,
now it's time to adjust the sails in the direction of the wind, and
take mass action... success is in the horizon.

If you need any help, feel free to message me, too, I'm glad to be
of some help to people with similar goals.

It's awesome to hear that man! It reiterates the fact that MMD is full of loving, caring, helpful people! I will definitely hit you up on AIM or skype at some point so we can share ideas!

[UPDATE]
As of today, I own three domain names under my belt. One is focusing on list building, one is fully CPALead, and the last is a mixture of CPALead and adsense.

[Thanks to Thisoldhat for giving me the push I needed to start finding solutions to things I don't like rather than just accepting it because it's "the only one".]
I'm trying to work out a solution to get rid of CPALead by adding my own gateway so I do one-page CPA offers instead of three-page ones that CPALead has, but I need some javascript help (I have BH Codebreaker already). If you think you can help, please read this thread:
http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/...here-else.html

Thank you all so much for being so caring! I will try my best to keep you updated whenever I can!

[skumfidusen]

Hi, junkfilter

you know where to reach me at.

And I'll try to help you

and keep up the work

PS.

You are a pleasure talking to

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by skumfidusen

Hi, junkfilter

you know where to reach me at.

And I'll try to help you

and keep up the work

PS.

You are a pleasure talking to

Thanks man! I appreciate your compliments!

[UPDATE] Recently, I've been talking to anywayIcan, fop_archer, skumfidusen, Thisoldhat, IQ2K5 about various things and I've learned something new from each and every single one of them... You guys are really great to talk with and I thank you for your advice!

Just now, I learned from IQ2K5 that blog commenting has become futile...Good thing he told me before I wasted a few hours on it! ^^ Thanks man!

[IQ2K5]

Originally Posted by junkfilter6

Just now, I learned from IQ2K5 that blog commenting has become futile...Good thing he told me before I wasted a few hours on it! ^^ Thanks man!

lol, man, don't misinterpret what I was saying,
it's not 100% futile... but it's not even 5% of what
it was before the recent changes made by major
SE's (for the Search Engine Optimization effect).

[anitajohnson]

I enjoyed your post. Great to see someone else on here with real measurable goals. Now it's time to write your plan.

GOAL : $2739.73 per day. Start chopping away at it.

A WORD OF CAUTION:
Keep us posted on here of your progress and do some research, but this (and other forums) while a wealth of knowledge, can engulf you and cause you to lose focus like a mystical creature.

Budget time for forum learning and research. Make sure you don't go over your budgeted time on the forums because many great marketers become awesome forum personalities with tons of methods they have learned about, but never make any money because they are too busy updating their posts and trading methods to actual put any in action.

JUST DO IT!
Find the niche you want to pursue and DO IT! Don't keep picking up new ones. Make money in the particular niche you want then decide if it is worth it to scale up. Don't over analyze. You can end up with analysis-paralysis. Where you look at so many different things and different ways to make money, you can't decide what to start on first. Most IM'ers have forgotten more ways to make money, than they know... You have to let some of them go to keep your focus.

ASK FOR HELP:

I have to tell you, this forum is one of the most helpful place you will find on the internet. There seem to be more people willing to help someone get started here than anywhere else I have seen. Dr. P is more accessible than most forum owners and he and his Mods are very aware of what they want to provide to IM'ers so you are in a good place to start.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post100944.html

That's my 5c worth. Thanks for reading. Good luck and if there is anything I can do to help you, let me know.

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by IQ2K5

lol, man, don't misinterpret what I was saying,
it's not 100% futile... but it's not even 5% of what
it was before the recent changes made by major
SE's (for the Search Engine Optimization effect).

Haha I didn't say 100% futile I just left it at futile. ^^ Thanks though!

Originally Posted by anitajohnson

I enjoyed your post. Great to see someone else on here with real measurable goals. Now it's time to write your plan.

GOAL : $2739.73 per day. Start chopping away at it.

Thanks a ton for your advice AnitaJohnson! Haha, I'm not aiming for $1,000,000 in a single year (yet!)...I'm giving myself 7 years to come up to that point, which I really do believe is possible!

A WORD OF CAUTION:

Keep us posted on here of your progress and do some research, but this (and other forums) while a wealth of knowledge, can engulf you and cause you to lose focus like a mystical creature.

Budget time for forum learning and research. Make sure you don't go over your budgeted time on the forums because many great marketers become awesome forum personalities with tons of methods they have learned about, but never make any money because they are too busy updating their posts and trading methods to actual put any in action.

Absolutely true! I've tried my best to limit my time on forums, but since I'm just starting out, I'm trying to build up my post count in various forums because I know that it'll be much easier for me to just dive into an already respected account that I've created over time rather than start from scratch... The ones I'm working on building credibility at the moment - WF and DP (in hopes that I will sell my own product(s) on it one day).

JUST DO IT!

Find the niche you want to pursue and DO IT! Don't keep picking up new ones. Make money in the particular niche you want then decide if it is worth it to scale up. Don't over analyze. You can end up with analysis-paralysis. Where you look at so many different things and different ways to make money, you can't decide what to start on first. Most IM'ers have forgotten more ways to make money, than they know... You have to let some of them go to keep your focus.

This is something I just heard from another video that I watched! Thanks for reiterating this point! There are so many things that I want to do and I really want to try all of them at the same time, but I need to find a few to focus on.

ASK FOR HELP:

I have to tell you, this forum is one of the most helpful place you will find on the internet. There seem to be more people willing to help someone get started here than anywhere else I have seen. Dr. P is more accessible than most forum owners and he and his Mods are very aware of what they want to provide to IM'ers so you are in a good place to start.

Agreed 10000000%! I love the people here more than anything and I've come a long way thanks to the great community we have here! I'm always looking for ways to give back and soon enough, I will being contributing much more!

That's my 5c worth. Thanks for reading. Good luck and if there is anything I can do to help you, let me know.

Thank you very much! The advice is much appreciated! I will be sure to contact you so we can chat! I love having one-on-one chats with MMD members

[junkfilter6]

I just want to take this opportunity to thank skumfidusen for all of the help he has given me recently! We spent quite a while just casually talking about IM and a lot of good ideas were brainstormed. Thanks a lot man!!! I really appreciate it!

[Kobokok]

That's my goal too...I'm in front of the computer 14+ hours a day trying to reach that.

[juggernaut]

Subscribed!

Thanks for the inspirational post junk filter!

My wallpaper says: "Dream Big, Hustle Hard"

????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post101339.html
You my friend are the very definition of that wallpaper. Keep up the great work.

Cheers

ps:because of your thread, i donated to jr vip--just waiting for it to go through due to bank payment instead of cc =D

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by Kobokok

That's my goal too...I'm in front of the computer 14+ hours a day trying to reach that.

You're not alone, my friend! I'm sure we can both reach our goals if we try hard enough!

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Subscribed!

Thanks for the inspirational post junk filter!

My wallpaper says: "Dream Big, Hustle Hard"

You my friend are the very definition of that wallpaper. Keep up the great work.

Cheers

ps:because of your thread, i donated to jr vip--just waiting for it to go through due to bank payment instead of cc =D

Thank you very much juggernaut! I truly appreciate your compliments! I'm glad I was able to inspire you! Thank you for donating! Even though I don't gain any visible profit from you donating, knowing that I was able to sway someone to support a fabulous, loving community gives me great joy!

If you ever want to talk, feel free to send me a message on AIM or Skype: junkfilter6. Just make sure you put your username in your message so I know whom I'm talking with!

[UPDATE] I applied to Adscend Media yesterday in hopes that they will provide better/shorter surveys for gateways than CPALead. I got accepted today! I love getting accepted to new networks...each time, it feels like I get a new position that I applied for.

I'll have to check out what Adscend Media has to offer. Maybe afterwards, I'll do a review/comparion of both networks so that people that aren't yet accepted to any can learn about the pros/cons. I always love helping out!

[junkfilter6]

[UPDATE] My website is on the first page of yahoo (position #8) for a keyword with 154,000,000 results!!!!!!!!!!!!

Check it out:
modern warfare 2 - Yahoo! Search Results

I know, yahoo isn't used as often as google or the other search engines combined, but it IS still a source of organic traffic and who doesn't love traffic that you don't need to keep working at to get?

It made my day haha.

I'm currently working on a new website using an older script, but with a clever (or at least, I think it's clever) twist.

I'll let you know how that goes later.

Special thanks to fop_archer for giving me some amazing advice and feedback!!! He's very resourceful, very insightful, and very helpful!

Also a big general thanks to my good buddy Reizar for always being there (when he's not at college) for me. We've become fantastically good friends over the past month and it's like I've known him forever! We always exchange ideas and thoughts and it's just great to have someone like him that I know I can always count on! Thanks Reizar!
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post101984.html

Another person I want to thank is anywayIcan. Even though he has limited time, he uses every bit of what he can to help out others. He embodies the caringness of MMD and I've really enjoyed talking with him! AWIC is amazing helpful... He does a lot of one-on-one quality helping and that's why a lot of you don't know exactly how amazing he really is... (Please don't spam his inbox with questions now!) He has a ton of patience and really sits with me (figuratively) for long periods of time explaining everything in detail. It's like private tutoring, only better. Fantastic guy, really.

If you want to be mentioned in one of my future posts, just talk to me! I love to get know all of you and I'm not afraid to share what I think of you (only when it's good) - I particularly enjoy pointing out the good things about people. You can add me on both AIM and Skype: junkfilter6

[anywayIcan]

Well sir Junk -I must say here and now - you are the biggest encourager and the most positive poster I have seen in a VERY long while on the net, not just MMD

Alls I can say is that with an attitude like yours, and an outlook on life like you have it is VERY hard to see how you will not become extremely successful

Thanks for the great comments but you know I don't really like high level publicity. Just helping is the best buzz for me
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post102022.html

Regards

AWIC

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by anywayIcan

Well sir Junk -I must say here and now - you are the biggest encourager and the most positive poster I have seen in a VERY long while on the net, not just MMD

Alls I can say is that with an attitude like yours, and an outlook on life like you have it is VERY hard to see how you will not become extremely successful

Thanks for the great comments but you know I don't really like high level publicity. Just helping is the best buzz for me

Regards

AWIC

Thanks a lot AWIC! I really appreciate your honesty and encouragement. I try my best to be realistically optimistic and believe that people have an innate ability to succeed - they just need some fuel for the fire to grow.

I apologize for the publicity, but I still think people deserve to know how great you are.

[UPDATE] My website is no longer on the front page of yahoo, unfortunately. :( I figured this would happen sooner or later, was hoping for later haha. Traffic has dropped by a significant amount, but I will certainly try to get it back up. I'm fully aware that I'll be hitting bumps in the road, but I'm stronger than that. I won't let anything stop me.

Currently working on rewriting some scripts for my new website and working very digilently on a new project that means a lot to me - one that I'm very excited to work with my close friend on. Even if the project doesn't go as planned, I'll become even closer with my already close friend, so it's a win-win situation. I absolutely love working with people; I'm very, very glad I was given this opportunity to work together with him.

Happy Valentine's Day! I hope you are all having a great time! I, personally, am enjoying the day with my love, Internet Marketing haha

[seowizards]

Man i hope you hit the big time and get the $1 mill target! just subscribed, your post's are worth reading.

Hope you stick at it and not give up like others.

Good luck man! will be keeping an eye on this thread

[junkfilter6]

Originally Posted by seowizards

Man i hope you hit the big time and get the $1 mill target! just subscribed, your post's are worth reading.

Hope you stick at it and not give up like others.

Good luck man! will be keeping an eye on this thread

That means a lot to me seowizards, thanks! I definitely will not give up. If I start to show any signs of giving up, be sure to put me in the proper place.

Today, I want to do a shout-out to IQ2K5. He's a very interesting guy, to say the least. His drive to be perfect and completely analytical brings out an entirely different side of me (in a good way). When I speak with him, I'm able to assess things much more clearly and analytically break down even the simplest of a sentence.

He's probably one of the few I can enjoy talking with about geeky math jokes and equations. In fact, today, we proved that the Devil = 1 and 1 = 666, which then means that 2*Devil + 5 = 1337. Haha now all of you think we're nerds or something but we don't care. We pride ourselves on who we are. That's one of the main things I like about IQ2K5 - he's very true to himself. He's also a very funny guy (not just full of math jokes).

IQ2K5, just wanted to say thanks for giving me some ideas for promoting my website. I'll have to get on that once I rewrite the script.

In addition, AWIC and I have had some really good conversations lately, completely unrelated to IM. He's a great guy to talk with and you really don't see the hours pass you by when you're speaking with him.

As a special note, I want to say that Reizar is one of the greatest people I've met. We clicked from the very beginning and our friendship grows stronger every day.

Just a few moments ago, I found out that Dr. P actually reads my journal every day...You wouldn't believe how happy that made me...He's such a busy guy working more than any of us can imagine and he still takes the time to read my journal posts... I want each of you to thank him for everything that he has done! To foster such a beautiful community of loving, caring individuals and keep it that way takes a lot of effort and he's taken his own time and money to do that for us... Show him a little love. I'll be creating a new Doc Appreciation Thread soon, so you can share your thanks there.

[EDIT] The thread has been created:
[READ THIS] Dr.P (Doc) Appreciation Thread!

[UPDATE] Bought a domain after some super extensive keyword research that could potentially be a gold nugget ($9.61 CPC) - planning on utilizing amazon/adsense, but might use something else.

[junkfilter6]

Looks like my journal is turning into a member evaluation directory haha. Don't worry, as you can see, I do provide updates too. It's just that I have an unmatched ability to see and recognize the good in people - what I love more than recognizing it is sharing it! You all deserve to know the greatness that surrounds you (and is within you!). While I can only give you an inkling of it, even an infinitesimal amount is better than none.
????: Money Maker Discussion Forum|Make Money Online|Seo|Blackhat Seo|WhiteHat|GreyHat|Affiliate and Internet Marketing http://www.moneymakerdiscussion.com/forum/mmd-personal-journals/16669-ambitious-goal-my-quest-1-000-000-a-post103232.html

Today's special shout-out goes to skumfidusen. He was a member that doubted the power of Jr. VIP at first, but now appreciates the fact that we have become good friends (I think...). We've had several good conversations about lots of different things, mostly related to Internet Marketing. This guy knows ALL about every different kind of product out there...

He's basically a fountain of knowledge for every IM program out there... What's even cooler is that he has had the chance to personally use pretty much everything and can get any product that he wants at anytime... Whenever I have my doubts about a program or tool, he's my first go-to person.

Skumfidusen has definitely helped me a lot recently and I want to thank him for that! Without him, I'd still be scrambling to find tools that actually worked.

[UPDATE] Created some custom CPALead Gateways. Hopefully this will increase conversions. Made about 4 for each site, so will do some testing to figure out which ones work best. Also recently created an account on Flippa. I'm sure that'll come in handy in the future.

Currently debating about selling off this website:
Surveys That Pay!
(It employs a split test, so you can refresh a few times every second to see the two different layouts.)

I haven't really done backlinking for it, but it was the first IM website I created and the CB product I was promoting in the backend was really dumb (the gravity was high and the salespage was good, but the product itself was awful - I never want to provide my visitors with anything other than good content).

What do you guys think? Should I try to sell it (I've actually created a nice series of autoresponder emails to make it actually worthwhile for my visitors)? Is there anything else I can do with it?

Any and all advice would be much appreciated! Thanks!

[skumfidusen]

Thank you dude. And yes I do like our friendship


And I can see you also ask to your site


I will talk to you on skype about that for a little brainstorming